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Forums Home > General Forum > Another accident at bell square.

  

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Topic : Another accident at bell square.

tetleydrinker
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29/06/2013 : 12:44:33      reply with quote


Well another accident has occurred at bell square, it looks to involve the Ilkley bus, a people carrier and another car. Hopefully nobody has been hurt.
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original
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29/06/2013 : 14:07:43      reply with quote


I have often heard it said there are no 'bad' roads justbad drivers.
Consider the A9 in Scotland
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pumbajunior
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30/06/2013 : 12:40:23      reply with quote


i disagree their are plenty of roads which are bad and junctions too
yes drivers are part of the problem also but areas of road were there is more going on are more likely to have accidents
(also when you look down past the bai tong trying to come out of bell square it is a bit of a blind spot i take extra care there now)
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original
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30/06/2013 : 16:49:44      reply with quote


I heard the comment from the police and the ambulance service so there must be grains of truth.
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jonno
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30/06/2013 : 21:54:01      reply with quote


I'm struggling to picture the scenario that ended up this the people carrier facing the kings arms, right up against the back of the bus. (probably touching, couldnt see from my angle)

I couldnt see any other vehicle. I doubt you can blame this one on Bell Square being a bad junction though.
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pumbajunior
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01/07/2013 : 15:40:33      reply with quote


quote
posted by original
I heard the comment from the police and the ambulance service so there must be grains of truth.
ohhh i agree their is definately alot of truth in it people are worse drivers on the whole these days but some roads are alot worse than others
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Peter
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01/07/2013 : 17:06:09      reply with quote


There have been too many accidents at this junction. Perhaps motorists should be protected from themselves and something should be done to make the junction safer.

My theory is it is possible to approach Bolton Road from the Bell Square direction at a speed such that traffic coming round from Kirkgate is hidden in your door pillar.

If you don't stop for a second or two at the white line then an accident is almost inevitable. Bolton Road is very busy and it is very tempting to come out onto Bolton Road if it appears to be clear.
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grandad
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01/07/2013 : 17:17:35      reply with quote


Peter, drivers don't look, they just glance, and most of them are only doing that at the road down by the church gates, they fail to see the vehicles that are near to the bottom of Briggate, they then glance up Bolton road and set off.
Yes we might get the junction changed to protect the drivers from them selves, but only if a lot more of them get killed!
Bradford don't give a damm about the people of Silsden.
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Cobydaler
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01/07/2013 : 17:32:10      reply with quote


Just remove the top row of stones from the wall outside bai tong .As you approach from Bell Sq you see cars by the church but not after because of the wall . Your brain subconsciously interpretates this as the road is clear & unless you are aware of the problem you pull out in front of a car . Have a look the next time you are coming up to the main road . The top row of stones have been added causing the blind spot !!! .
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Loobster
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01/07/2013 : 22:33:23      reply with quote


I have been driving for 29 years and have had two minor bumps one of them at this junction which I use almost daily there is a blind spot and removing said stones would not make a difference I now always look right. left, right, left & right again.
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micky
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02/07/2013 : 06:22:50      reply with quote


Not one of the drivers who are complaining about this junction have said that whenever they are going up or down Bolton road, they make a conscious effort to let some traffic out of Bell square. I DO.
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dexter
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02/07/2013 : 07:53:18      reply with quote


I think micky makes a good point....a lot of local drivers are aware of the problems there, and let people out at the junction. Many "through" drivers are frustrated at the delays in Kirkgate if they are coming from Keighley direction, and speed up when they get to the Church, just to get out of Silsden. They also speed down Bolton Road because they don't realise what is at the bottom of the hill.
Some local speeding drivers don't care anyway, but they are in a minority.
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grandad
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02/07/2013 : 13:44:41      reply with quote


I know I have said this before, but it is still true.
Never put yourself anywhere that you have not first been with your eyes.
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dexter
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18/07/2013 : 09:04:05      reply with quote


Another one this morning! 2 cars, long traffic delays......time to get the traffic lights installed there? sad :(
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pumbajunior
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18/07/2013 : 09:57:52      reply with quote


i guessing too expensive thats always the answer from BFD
from what i heard its about 30000 to change whichever crossing they change
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Peter
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18/07/2013 : 09:58:53      reply with quote


Looked like a car pulled out of Bell Square and was hit by a car going up Bolton Road. The police were in attendance.

I think we should keep mentioning accidents on this junction and the Elliot Street junction until something gets done. It's only compulsory to report an accident if there is someone injured so minor accidents do not get reported.

A bit (a very thick line) of white paint at the Bell Square junction would not go amiss. shocked 8Oshocked 8Oshocked 8O
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Golden Oldie
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18/07/2013 : 10:38:05      reply with quote


I went past at around 7.40 am. traffic backed up but not bad at that time. Don't think it will take much investigating, obviously someone had pulled out of the square into another vehicle.
Since living here, we have had 6 different cars between us, at no time have either of us experienced difficulties getting across this junction, I really do think it's a case of " run for it" when there's a gap, then bang.Only needs people to exercise a bit more caution, and not risk other folks vehicles.
Do so hope that everyone o.k. but there was an Ambulance in attendance.
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grandad
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18/07/2013 : 12:05:28      reply with quote


Yes another collision, please note not an accident.
Peter would it not be better to get the incompetent drivers off the roads all together not just make this bit of road OK for them to use?
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Peter
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18/07/2013 : 12:41:18      reply with quote


Collision???? that's just 'police speak' most of us just have plain o'l accidents. There have been too many incidents on this junction and the fact nobody has been killed is a wonder. Does someone have to be killed before anything is done?

We are not all perfect drivers but I'm sure none of us go out thinking we are so bad that we are a danger on the road. The junction needs to be improved to protect us from ourselves. It is all well and good saying I never have a problem coming out of the Bell Square junction, but it's obvious from the number of incidents some drivers do have a problem.

Are they local?
Are they unfamiliar with the junction?
Were they distracted?
Are they frustrated and impatient with the amount of traffic coming down Bolton Road?
Is there a blind spot?
Do all the accidents occur when someone is turning right out of Bell Square?

You ask the questions, but there is 'something' wrong with this junction which perhaps (if someone bothered to look at it) could easily be made safer.
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gazzer
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18/07/2013 : 12:47:36      reply with quote


quote
posted by Golden Oldie
I really do think it's a case of " run for it" when there's a gap, then bang.Only needs people to exercise a bit more caution, and not risk other folks vehicles.
.
I do not want to be rude but you are miles out with your assumption. It is a well known fact that drivers looking both ways have their sight drawn towards the church. This allows for cars coming up the street to be missed from view. Its only when a car is in a certain position which happens to be the exact position that allows contact with the car pulling out of Bell Sq.
It is not a case of seeing a car and trying to beat it.The car coming up is not seen.
If the junction became a stop junction instead of a give way AND people did stop it would help as would traffic lights.
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gazzer
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18/07/2013 : 12:50:40      reply with quote


quote
posted by grandad
Yes another collision, please note not an accident.
Peter would it not be better to get the incompetent drivers off the roads all together not just make this bit of road OK for them to use?
It is not done on purpose so its an accident and its caused by the road layout. If it was just bad driving how come a junction like the bottom of Aire View doesnt have the same number of accidents?.
solid wood flooring

dexter
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18/07/2013 : 14:17:57      reply with quote


Peter is right...there are a lot of factors at play here, and the number of accidents suggest something should be done to change the situation. If nothing changes, the accidents will go on, and next time someone will be killed.
There should be some observation carried out by experts, to see what is happening, feedback obtained from drivers regularly using the junction, and some action taken.
I would prefer traffic lights, and if they cost 30k then it's cheap. The cost of emergency callouts, insurance claims, delays etc would pay that back in a year if not sooner.
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hat
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18/07/2013 : 15:36:08      reply with quote


lights combined with a pedestrian crossing both here & at clog bridge/elliot street would make a huge difference to the safety of silsden's roads - & improve traffic flow through the town
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Landrover
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18/07/2013 : 15:49:48      reply with quote


Sorry Hat but no. Traffic lights only cause delays, look at the nightmare a journey to Skipton has become. The removal of the roundabout at Saltaire will cause chaos. A pelican crossing is only ok if configured properly, take the one between the college and asda, at busy (pedestrian) times there is not time to cross the box junction at top of Dalton Lane before the lights change again, pedestrians need a safe crossing point but the traffic must be allowed to move. I cannot claim to know the answer but it is not traffic lights
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pumbajunior
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18/07/2013 : 16:09:37      reply with quote


quote
posted by dexter
Peter is right...there are a lot of factors at play here, and the number of accidents suggest something should be done to change the situation. If nothing changes, the accidents will go on, and next time someone will be killed.
There should be some observation carried out by experts, to see what is happening, feedback obtained from drivers regularly using the junction, and some action taken.
I would prefer traffic lights, and if they cost 30k then it's cheap. The cost of emergency callouts, insurance claims, delays etc would pay that back in a year if not sooner.
No i said the changes to the crossing at either Elliot Street or the town hall were going to be about 30000 if your talking full traffic lights at bolton road/bell square that would be alot more probably around the 100000 mark
(a guess)
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dexter
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18/07/2013 : 16:10:43      reply with quote


Landrover....if all you are worried about is traffic going slower, rather than safety on the road, then fine.That's your choice.
Speed is a huge problem, everyone needs to get used to travelling more slowly in built up areas.....so it should be more lights to slow people down and improve safety happy :)
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dexter
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18/07/2013 : 16:13:24      reply with quote


quote
posted by pumbajunior


No i said the changes to the crossing at either Elliot Street or the town hall were going to be about 30000 if your talking full traffic lights at bolton road/bell square that would be alot more probably around the 100000 mark
(a guess)
One fatal accident would cost more than 100k, look it up
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Landrover
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18/07/2013 : 16:58:47      reply with quote


Dexter. How dare you assume that my being anti-traffic lights means I am not concerned with road safety.
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Peter
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18/07/2013 : 17:39:04      reply with quote


quote
posted by dexter
Landrover....if all you are worried about is traffic going slower, rather than safety on the road, then fine.That's your choice.
Speed is a huge problem, everyone needs to get used to travelling more slowly in built up areas.....so it should be more lights to slow people down and improve safety happy :)
From the position of the cars 'in collision' at Bell Square this morning speed was not an issue.
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dexter
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18/07/2013 : 18:47:57      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by Landrover
Dexter. How dare you assume that my being anti-traffic lights means I am not concerned with road safety.
That's the way your post read, I'm afraid.
Apologies if it's not what you meant
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grandad
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18/07/2013 : 19:10:46      reply with quote


"ACCIDENT" Definition, an event that is without apparent cause, or is unexpected.
Peter they are not accidents, if you drive out of a junction without making sure there is nothing coming then the collision is neither without apparent cause or unexpected.
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Peter
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18/07/2013 : 19:17:29      reply with quote


Semantics
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jonno
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19/07/2013 : 07:34:08      reply with quote


quote
posted by grandad
"ACCIDENT" Definition, an event that is without apparent cause, or is unexpected.
Peter they are not accidents, if you drive out of a junction without making sure there is nothing coming then the collision is neither without apparent cause or unexpected.
I don't suppose the drivers who pull out, thinking it's clear, are expecting to get hit. It is unexpected to them and therefore an accident. Or are you suggesting they pull out being aware that another car is coming up the road and deliberately casue a collision?
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Landrover
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19/07/2013 : 10:47:28      reply with quote


Does anyone remember the Amber Gamblers? Both drivers going through on Amber, assuming they will not meet another of their kind or that the 'other' driver will give way. Nowadays we have the Aggressive Driver, they who pull out into oncoming traffic, when turning right, assuming the other driver will not want their car damaging and will brake, and that traffic to their left will stop to let them out. What we do need is less of the I'm allright Jack/Jill, and more manners
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ginjo
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19/07/2013 : 11:11:18      reply with quote


landrover I agree, there are a lot of very ignorant drivers in silsden who do pull out in front of you expecting as you say that people will stop, they are so arrogant or stupid or on their phones it makes my blood boil.There was a stupid woman trying to pull out of elliott street as we were coming over the bridge into silsden, we were going to let her out until we saw that she was chatting away on her mobile phone!! idiot, she was old enough to know better as well, maybe pcso should do some observation work and get number plates of everyone using mobiles then on the spot fine.Fine should also be increased to a more significant amount as a deterrant.
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old_miner
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19/07/2013 : 16:32:35      reply with quote


Do not use that junction very often, but have used it a couple of times recently including today and made a note of what can be seen.

The wall on Purple Garlic only cuts view way back, say second car in queue wanting a quick get out, although they could not see to left. Not sure about church as a distraction. I suppose the current fad for dull dark cars means many are not so easy to see against the wall. Solution: only bright coloured cars to be sold. No more grey, black, dull green etc. (note: this is part humorous - I honestly do not understand why people insist on buying dull coloured cars!!)

While looking left when turning out is generally fine someone parked outside the pub can cause problems.

Seems to me that any accident there is going to be down to the driver coming out not looking well enough and/or taking a chance; then losing.

As for phone users - just sit at the bus stop by the gardens for a short time and count the number going by with phone in hand. I reckon in a couple days the national debt could be paid off in fines!!!!
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