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Topic : Floodgate

Mickyfinn
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Posts : 220

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27/04/2015 : 10:06:18      reply with quote


Notice from solicitors acting for Bradford Council has been attached to the floodgate & dated 21/4/15. Goes into great detail & gives reasons why the structure is to be demolished. It states, however, that there will be a 3 month appeal period prior to demolition.
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ginjo
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27/04/2015 : 10:27:22      reply with quote


so whoever was responsible for the monstrosity should all be hanging their heads in shame.
Hope it does go, but what a waste of money in the first place.
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dogcatcher
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27/04/2015 : 10:34:08      reply with quote


yes diabolical, 2 doz sand bags stacked in the hole would surfice and block the gap up when heavy rain predicted or leave them in place over the winter cant be any worse than the scrap yard challengeangryangryangry
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tetleydrinker
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27/04/2015 : 11:01:36      reply with quote


I seem to recall that the project ran out of money, so who will fund the removal of the eyesore and making the site good ?
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gazzer
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27/04/2015 : 11:16:20      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by tetleydrinker
I seem to recall that the project ran out of money, so who will fund the removal of the eyesore and making the site good ?
I would guess the landowner and the paymasters. Which is Bradford Council in both cases!!!.You couldnt make it up...Bradford Council give money without due dilligence
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BubbyVee
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27/04/2015 : 12:07:04      reply with quote


I think also STC may have to shoulder some blame as well!!!!

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gazzer
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27/04/2015 : 12:18:15      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by BubbyVee
I think also STC may have to shoulder some blame as well!!!!


Not really they only backed it verbally. Bradford should never give money out without checking the validity of any scheme more so if it is on their own property.

How can you blame volunteers(TC) when Bradford council have a legal dept with people earning thousands of pounds a year to check such things are above board?
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gazzer
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27/04/2015 : 12:57:00      reply with quote


quote
posted by dogcatcher
yes diabolical, 2 doz sand bags stacked in the hole would surfice and block the gap up when heavy rain predicted or leave them in place over the winter cant be any worse than the scrap yard challengeangryangryangry
I have used hessian and nylon sandbags and neither last 2 minutes
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Mickyfinn
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27/04/2015 : 13:26:25      reply with quote


I may be a bit cynical 'gazzer' but it seems rather coincidental that Labour-led Bradford Council posted this notice a fortnight or so before the Elections, possibly seeing, from known opposition to the scheme in the town, an advantage to be gained at the polling booth. It beggars belief that Bradford Council by default sanctioned this scheme by granting funds to the Silsden Environmental Group without the need to make a planning application for a scheme on their own land & it is also hard to understand why the Environment Agency, when asked, had no objections to the scheme going ahead(which has now been highlighted by Bradford Council as a deciding factor in their decision to demolish the floodgate).
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ginjo
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27/04/2015 : 15:28:38      reply with quote


I doubt at the time the grant was asked for, anyone was fully aware of the nature of the scheme.It is over engineered to say the least, I bet the environment group/town council did not make clear what they were going to do, it certainly took people in silsden by surprise!I think the timing of the notice might be a coincidence, I do know that a legal process had to be gone through before a notice could be served, in any case I am sure the people of silsden are not stupid enough to let it sway the way they vote!I am not sure who will have to pay for the work it is a sorry state of affairs and maybe lessons will be learned for any future ventures
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BubbyVee
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27/04/2015 : 15:50:45      reply with quote


quote
posted by gazzer
quote
posted by BubbyVee
I think also STC may have to shoulder some blame as well!!!!


Not really they only backed it verbally. Bradford should never give money out without checking the validity of any scheme more so if it is on their own property.

How can you blame volunteers(TC) when Bradford council have a legal dept with people earning thousands of pounds a year to check such things are above board?
So next time the TC ask the Council for any funding it may be a little bit awkward me tinks?
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hat
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Posts : 368

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27/04/2015 : 16:24:06      reply with quote


quote
posted by gazzer
quote
posted by BubbyVee
I think also STC may have to shoulder some blame as well!!!!


Not really they only backed it verbally. Bradford should never give money out without checking the validity of any scheme more so if it is on their own property.

How can you blame volunteers(TC) when Bradford council have a legal dept with people earning thousands of pounds a year to check such things are above board?
the name of silsden town council is written in weld right across the top of it. that's a bit more than a verbal.

thank god it's going anyway regardless of the reasons
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gazzer
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27/04/2015 : 16:35:04      reply with quote


quote
posted by ginjo
I doubt at the time the grant was asked for, anyone was fully aware of the nature of the scheme.It is over engineered to say the least, I bet the environment group/town council did not make clear what they were going to do, it certainly took people in silsden by surprise!
So the conversation went like this

Silsden Environment Group; Please can we have some money to build a flood barrier but we are not saying where it is going or what it will look like?
Bradford Council; No problem
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gazzer
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27/04/2015 : 16:39:21      reply with quote


quote
posted by Mickyfinn
I may be a bit cynical 'gazzer' but it seems rather coincidental that Labour-led Bradford Council posted this notice a fortnight or so before the Elections, possibly seeing, from known opposition to the scheme in the town, an advantage to be gained at the polling booth. .
Who could possibly make a political gain.







Apart from Labours Val Carroll who featured in the KN about this or a sitting councillor with a grudge against a candidate/Town Councillor.
I do not know the answer but I reckon at least one is behind it!!!
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Pennypeck
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27/04/2015 : 16:39:59      reply with quote


Didn't the funding come from the Environment Agency?
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gazzer
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27/04/2015 : 16:40:39      reply with quote


quote
posted by BubbyVee
quote
posted by gazzer
quote
posted by BubbyVee
I think also STC may have to shoulder some blame as well!!!!


Not really they only backed it verbally. Bradford should never give money out without checking the validity of any scheme more so if it is on their own property.

How can you blame volunteers(TC) when Bradford council have a legal dept with people earning thousands of pounds a year to check such things are above board?
So next time the TC ask the Council for any funding it may be a little bit awkward me tinks?
I think that would be true about the Environment Group who recieved the funding but shouldnt affect the TC
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gazzer
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27/04/2015 : 16:42:20      reply with quote


quote
posted by Pennypeck
Didn't the funding come from the Environment Agency?
No.


The barrier would be in the form of a gate at an opening in the wall, which allows people down to the beck to feed ducks.

It would be closed in heavy rain, stopping excess water escaping the beck and running along St John Street.

The main aim is to avoid flooding in a row of cottages that front onto the beck by the bridge.

The barrier is a joint scheme by Silsden Youth Council and Silsden Environmental Group. They have applied for 2,500 from Keighley Area Committee's budget for environmental measures and committee members were due to decide on the application last night (Wednesday).
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ginjo
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27/04/2015 : 16:47:19      reply with quote


the money did not come from the environment agency pennypeck, silsden town council paid the environment agency a consultation fee, 50 I think it was. Someone has tried to be clever here and really over thought the answer to a very minor problem which could have been solved in other ways, no need for a massive metal contraption emblazoned with silsden town council and m o'dwyers name, who is also a town councillor!
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Peter
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27/04/2015 : 19:48:04      reply with quote


quote
posted by ginjo
the money did not come from the environment agency pennypeck, silsden town council paid the environment agency a consultation fee, 50 I think it was.
Wrong again, Silsden Town Council paid 50 to the Environmental Agency (on behalf of Silsden Youth Council) for the privilege of getting the stones out of the beck with a digger. A beck clean up - say thank you to Silsden Youth Council. happy :)

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midway
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27/04/2015 : 20:06:47      reply with quote


Thank you Silsden Youth Council for all the good work you have done for the community, unfortunately some people have short memories.
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ginjo
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28/04/2015 : 09:15:01      reply with quote


peter, if I have got the wrong end of the stick then I do apologise but in the minutes of silsden town council dated 4th july 2013 there is reference to a payment to the environment agency which states "permissions - beck" 50. Perhaps minutes should be made a little clearer particularly when our money is being spent.I appreciate the youth council do a lot of work in the town and I suspect in the case of the beck they may have been led by someone else's brain wave,I can just imagine, doing the beck clean up someone has a lightbulb moment I know wouldn't it be good if we had a flood barrier or words to that effect and then the whole thing snowballed into what we have now(this is only my guess as to what happened)By the way, seems strange no minutes from youth council between jan 2012 and may 2013 due to "computer problems" we have not always had computers, how were minutes done before, surely someone has written them down at the meeting so not that difficult to get them typed, I presume they have hand written copies in a folder somewhere.I know they are only volunteers as were the environment group(who seem to have disappeared off the face of the earth) but they have to be answerable to their actions
solid wood flooring

Mickyfinn
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Posts : 220

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28/04/2015 : 11:21:59      reply with quote


Thought I might throw the following I received from the Silsden Town Clerk, dated 14/8/14.
"I have been asked to respond to you on behalf of Silsden Environmental Action Group who are delivering the project known as Silsden Beck Project. In answer to the questions you posed the project was sanctioned by the Environment Agency who are responsible for this part of the river course under Ref: Environment Agency Flood Defence Consent Application(Ref No:YNE_W_Yorks_2013_83) Installation of flood gate to prevent St.John's Street from flooding at Duck Pond Silsden Town Centre. The consent was given following site visits from Bradford's Flood & Drains Officer, two visits from the Environment Agency & discussion with both Bradford's Planning Dept. & Conservation Dept. Keighley Area Co-ordinator's Office granted funding for this project based on the information above as it met with criteria for environmental projects within the ward plan. Finally, the Environment Agency gave approval of the project "in relation to its impact on flows in the watercourse & its flood plain".
It would seem that the Silsden Environmental Action Group followed all the correct procedures prior to erection of the floodgate, however, at some point this project ran into difficulties & so, we have been left with what many belief to be an appalling eyesore at Silsdens most iconic site. This state of affairs has come to Bradford's attention & for what appears to be environmental reasons they now intend to demolish the structure subject to appeal. This decision is rather difficult to understand because it is quite evident that Bradford approved the erection of the floodgate & surely it would be in their best interests to take over this project & complete it at their expense.
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hat
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Posts : 368

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28/04/2015 : 13:00:16      reply with quote


quote
posted by Mickyfinn
Thought I might throw the following I received from the Silsden Town Clerk, dated 14/8/14.
"I have been asked to respond to you on behalf of Silsden Environmental Action Group who are delivering the project known as Silsden Beck Project. In answer to the questions you posed the project was sanctioned by the Environment Agency who are responsible for this part of the river course under Ref: Environment Agency Flood Defence Consent Application(Ref No:YNE_W_Yorks_2013_83) Installation of flood gate to prevent St.John's Street from flooding at Duck Pond Silsden Town Centre. The consent was given following site visits from Bradford's Flood & Drains Officer, two visits from the Environment Agency & discussion with both Bradford's Planning Dept. & Conservation Dept. Keighley Area Co-ordinator's Office granted funding for this project based on the information above as it met with criteria for environmental projects within the ward plan. Finally, the Environment Agency gave approval of the project "in relation to its impact on flows in the watercourse & its flood plain".
It would seem that the Silsden Environmental Action Group followed all the correct procedures prior to erection of the floodgate, however, at some point this project ran into difficulties & so, we have been left with what many belief to be an appalling eyesore at Silsdens most iconic site. This state of affairs has come to Bradford's attention & for what appears to be environmental reasons they now intend to demolish the structure subject to appeal. This decision is rather difficult to understand because it is quite evident that Bradford approved the erection of the floodgate & surely it would be in their best interests to take over this project & complete it at their expense.

what's missing from all of that consultation and agreement is planning consent from the planning authority (Bradford Council), which it seems was never sought or granted. The Env Agency gave the OK from a flooding perspective only. It would seem that the Silsden Env Action Group was either badly advised or misguided.

Without having read the notice now apparently attached, i would assume it is being removed due to this lack of planning consent rather than for any environmental reasons. How it all got this far frankly beggars belief
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Mickyfinn
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28/04/2015 : 14:21:57      reply with quote


'Hat@. having just had another look at the enforcement order attached to the floodgate structure I could not find any mention of any failure to obtain planning permission. However, the document does list a considerable number of environmental conditions that must be met, presumably before any planning consent would be granted.
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gazzer
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28/04/2015 : 19:04:07      reply with quote


Have a look at the modern day photo here


johngliddle.blogspot.co.uk/2014_09_01_archive.html




On the photo look at the large black waste bin Bradford Council have stuck there and the 1970's lampost.





Next time you look these will be the first things you see along with the barrier work




If Bradford council want they could remove all three and put a period lampost up.( I do realise a bin will have to go somewhere)
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gazzer
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28/04/2015 : 20:25:41      reply with quote


A blast from the past;




A heroic family business saved many Silsden residents from flooding when Bradford Council was unable to help.

Builders from Silsden construction company PA Snell and Sons Ltd ran to get wooden boards from their work site as a worried woman watched water rise to her doorstep.

Silsden town councillor Anne Brown had already contacted Bradford Council and the Environment Agency, who could not supply any sandbags when water began to rise from the village duck pond and across to nearby houses.

Coun Brown said: "One woman was very worried that her home was about to be flooded.

"I was having no luck with the council and I went to a nearby policeman who didn't have anything either, so as a last resort I tried the builders who are developing a site on St John's Close.

"They didn't have any sandbags but they came and put a wooden board in front of the water, which forced it back in to the pond and away from the houses. They did a very good job."

The mayor of Silsden Town Council, Liz Trainor, said the Silsden-based family company did an excellent job and saved many homes from being flooded when they could not get alternative help.

She said: "We could not get any sandbags from anybody, we just kept getting passed from pillar to post between Bradford Council and the Environment Agency, nobody wanted anything to do with it.

"A big thanks has to go to the company workers - they saved a lot of houses, there was a lot of houses that would have been flooded if it wasn't for them."

Councillor Trainor also praised the efforts of the police and the Environment Agency, who she said were quick on the scene to aid and assess Silsden's flood crisis.

In defence of its struggle to equip the town with sandbags, Mike Powell, emergency planning manager for Bradford Council, said the department had received a huge number of calls about flooding this week.


He said: "We do have some sandbags available but we must prioritise them for vulnerable people and to maintain access for the emergency services, to protect vital facilities within the community and to protect the main transport routes."
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Peter
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28/04/2015 : 21:10:19      reply with quote


I think that would have been the January 2008 floods
www.silsden.net/pictures/floods_jan2008/index.htm

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Raver
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28/04/2015 : 21:22:49      reply with quote


Gazzer & Peter, thanks for historical information. So its a fact - all that is needed are some wooden boards to cover a flood emergency,(which was 7 years ago...) I think this proves the case that the blot on the town's landscape was a gross over-kill. My advice would be to quickly get out the angle grinder to remove evidence of ownership...!
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gazzer
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28/04/2015 : 21:41:12      reply with quote


quote
posted by Raver
Gazzer & Peter, thanks for historical information. So its a fact - all that is needed are some wooden boards to cover a flood emergency,(which was 7 years ago...) I think this proves the case that the blot on the town's landscape was a gross over-kill. My advice would be to quickly get out the angle grinder to remove evidence of ownership...!
No it proves the need for someone other than Bradford Council to block the opening because its not a priority for Bradford Council using sand bags, boards or anything else. On the occasion mentioned it was lucky it was during working hours and there was a building site nearby.

Having established there is a flood risk and Bfd are to remove the gate the question is to the landowner(Bfd Council)
What will you do during a flood event?

One thing for sure it will not be supply temporary means to the general public to put up on their land. Health & safety, if someone fell in the Council would be in the dock
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skippy
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29/04/2015 : 17:14:48      reply with quote


as usual its down to me(again)to kick ass in bfd a meeting is to be held between the city soliciter ,the head of planning and enforcement,, Cllr Naylor and myself to try and bring a speedy end to the cockup made by bfd. yes bfd are responsible for this as 1 they are the land owner 2 they sanctioned the money,certain prospective candidates at next weeks election have done nothing so think this is a vote winner. well its not it needs a solution and quick, as has been said before it does flood and needs something doing because we cannot rely on any help in times of flood from either bfd or the environment agency,both labour and conservative candidates have been quoted but have not done anything about it as per usual I have. will let you know the outcome when we have one.does anyone know how a piece of metal is going to lodge an appeal? answer on a postcard to cloud cuckoo land please.
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gazzer
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29/04/2015 : 17:21:16      reply with quote


Actually Skippy it is your fault. Somebody stuck a notice on the barrier saying its your fault so it must be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Looking at it it is probably a political rival behind it
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tetleydrinker
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29/04/2015 : 17:55:42      reply with quote


quote
posted by skippy
does anyone know how a piece of metal is going to lodge an appeal? answer on a postcard to cloud cuckoo land please.
Surely it should be the instigators of the project who should lodge any appeal, and I believe this is the Silsden Enviroment group

quote
posted by Gazzer
Looking at it it is probably a political rival behind it
Why must everything that happens be part of some anti Town Council conspiracy theory, Silsdens own Watergate.

Thank god we haven't got a grassy knoll and a book refrectory
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gazzer
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29/04/2015 : 18:26:54      reply with quote


quote
posted by tetleydrinker
quote


quote
posted by Gazzer
Looking at it it is probably a political rival behind it
Why must everything that happens be part of some anti Town Council conspiracy theory, Silsdens own Watergate.


Here is the full text;

VOTE INDEPENDENT


AND THIS IS WHAT YOU GET

A BLIGHT THAT HAS BEEN HERE FOR TWO YEARS
AN EYESORE THAT CONTRAVENES SIX LAWS
NO PLANS
NO CONSULTATION
NO REGARD TO A CONSERVATION AREA
NO VISUAL IMPACT SURVEY
NO CONSIDERATION FOR THE ENVIRONMENT
NO ONE TO DISCUSS THIS WITH
NO ONE WILL TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY

A WASTE OF YOUR MONEY TO ERECT AND TAKE DOWN

BRADFORD COUNCIL GAVE GOOD MONEY IN GOOD FAITH BUT YOUR INDEPENDENT COUNCILLORS LET YOU DOWN

THIS IS ONLY ONE OF THE MANY FAILURES OF OUR INDEPENDENT COUNCILLORS RUNNING OUR TOWN COUNCIL

YOUR COUNCILLORS PUT THIS IN AND NOW WONT OWN UP TO IT






It is obviously a lot of untrue statements but some people will have read it and taken it all to be true.
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skippy
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29/04/2015 : 21:19:13      reply with quote


as the unnamed person who wrote this rubbish cannot read, I will try and spell it out again , the land belongs bfd council, bfd council paid the money to do the work.where does the town council come in to it. mr o'dwyer gave all his time for free along with danny clark so please get your facts right before you start to blame someone. as the old saying goes loose lips sink ships. may 7th is a very important day for labour and the tories so not all tell the truth.
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gazzer
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29/04/2015 : 21:46:56      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by skippy
as the unnamed person who wrote this rubbish cannot read, I will try and spell it out again , the land belongs bfd council, bfd council paid the money to do the work.where does the town council come in to it. mr o'dwyer gave all his time for free along with danny clark so please get your facts right before you start to blame someone. as the old saying goes loose lips sink ships. may 7th is a very important day for labour and the tories so not all tell the truth.
Some people see "Silsden Town Council" on the barrier and put 2+2 together.


The text used in this bit of paper on the barrier is in a similar vein to someone on social media. The paper is quite distinct and would easily be matched to documents from the same person
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victor
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30/04/2015 : 11:01:42      reply with quote


gazer does it matter who wrote it, a lot of people feel the same way. I myself don't mind if it stays or goes, the only problem I have is if Silsden T C had no say in the project why not ?.
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