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Topic : NEW SCHOOL PLANS ARE AVAILABLE

Peter
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02/11/2017 : 17:47:59      reply with quote



The school planning application is available to view and as this is going to be a very important subject for all of us I have started a new topic.

If you wish to view the old thread X-Ref: www.silsden.net/forum/philboard_read.asp?id=8229


THE PLANNING APPLICATION AND DOCUMENTS:

Re 17/05793/REG | A fit for purpose 3.FE primary school and nursery, which includes a future-proofed design to enable a 4.FE school provision. External works to include utility connections/diversions, landscaping, car parking, highways, external play and sports provision. | Land At Hawber Lane Silsden West Yorkshire

Use this link
planning.bradford.gov.uk/online-applications/

and on the page search for planning application number
17/05793/REG




click for more information

Corky Yorky
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Posts : 119

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02/11/2017 : 18:30:46      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Wow!
Despite the traffic model assuring us that everything is going to be hunky dory Ireally do have my serious doubts over this proposal.
Here are some intial data and thoughts I have extracted from the traffic survey for you all to peruse and query.


Does not include any predicted pedestrian or vehicle data from the Belton Rd development despite family homes going to be built.

Unsure, but I think the data does not factor in that many pedestrians going to and from the school will be travelling up a hill.

4.2 States that there is vertually NO route choice (surprise, surprise!)

4.3.1 The calculation model uses a 2-lane car following model, which factors in overtaking and recovery (90%!!). I think overtaking isnít going to happen at all!
I think the model should just have used car following. Any thoughts?

Some interesting data:

Fig 7 Existing School Walk Time Isochrones:
postcodes show the following:
70 (Outside 20minutes walk)
33 (20 mins walk)
43 (15 mins walk)
33 (10 mins walk)
9 (5 mins walk)

Fig 8 Proposed School Walk Time Isochrones:
postcodes show the following:
52 (Outside 20 minutes walk)
8 (20 mins walk)
43 (15 mins walk)
47 (10 mins walk)
37 (5 mins walk)

Steeton/Eastburn 14 postcodes
Keighley /Riddlesden 30 postcodes.

I still cant figure out the traffic flow route. Any thoughts on this?
Oh, can anyone see a coach turning area..which i believe would be a necessity.

Will post more interesting statistics/thoughts in due course!
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midway
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02/11/2017 : 19:02:36      reply with quote


The traffic direction, to enter via Hawber cote lane and exit via Middleway. o joy.
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dogcatcher
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02/11/2017 : 23:45:31      reply with quote


yes middy hope you av got that snack bar sorted 'happy :)'); on a more serious note what do you think that will do for house prices in that area,will they go down because of the school or will the close location drive them up???
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hat
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03/11/2017 : 07:26:39      reply with quote


If you look at a better quality image on the planning app the access via middleway is a pedestrian path only, sharing the existing path that the farm owns. The only vehicle access route is via hawber cote drive with a turning circle within the school grounds an a turning head for buses. The reality is thought that parents will drive up middleway or more likely aireville mount to drop kids at this entrance unless prevented. Anyone east or south of clog bridge is not going to drive up to banklands

For those concerned about this location, we could do with a couple of savvy people to read the plans indetail and highlight any issues or omissions that can be included in opposition comments.

The traffic impact mentioned above on middleway / aireville is one example. Another quesion is regarding the red hatched area on hawber cote drive which is tagged as unadopted. If this the case, who owns it now and could itbe used as ransom strip to prevent this as an access route?

I will say as a resident of aireville i dont have at this point any objection to the school design as such, my concerns are about the viability of access to this site.
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victor
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03/11/2017 : 09:22:13      reply with quote


If you look at Transport assessment Appendix A Preliminary Site plan, there is a good plan of the site you can read.
click for more information

victor
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03/11/2017 : 09:40:31      reply with quote


Hat if you look at the Vehicular access 7.3 Transport assessment it says the vehicular entrance is on Hawber cote lane and exit is on Middleway. With a one way road linking them.
click for more information

gazzer
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03/11/2017 : 09:46:49      reply with quote


I am sure when I looked Middleway is not wide enough for school entry/exit and the footpath is not wide enough
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gazzer
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03/11/2017 : 10:13:53      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

There was no traffic survey on Howden Road during the week commencing June 26th.
In fact I do not believe the traffic survey results at all.
For instance on Thursday 29th June they have survey results for the Junction of Keighley Road and New Road when everyone knows the junction is Kirkgate/New Road. Also at this junction the weather is given as "overcast" but on the same day at the junction of Bolton Road/Biggate it was "wet"!!!
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hat
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03/11/2017 : 10:47:07      reply with quote


quote
posted by victor
Hat if you look at the Vehicular access 7.3 Transport assessment it says the vehicular entrance is on Hawber cote lane and exit is on Middleway. With a one way road linking them.
Apologies you are correct. The plan in the transport assessment doesnít completely match the final plan. The egress onto middleway definitely needs challenging. There is no indication though that this one way
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mayflower
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03/11/2017 : 10:52:20      reply with quote


That puzzled me too hat. Wondering also, will the site roads be closed during school holidays.
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gazzer
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03/11/2017 : 11:29:24      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

In respect of Middleway the footpath will need to be 3.0m wide

3.2.3 Generally, 2.0m wide footways, on each side of the carriageway, will be required. In
exceptional cases, if only one footway is required, a 2.5m. wide verge should be
provided on the other side of the carriageway. If the footway is located outside schools
or similar community facilities, it should measure at least 3 metres in width in the area
the public may congregate.
tap.iht.org/objects_store/200007/DesignGuideSZa.pdf


click for more information

gazzer
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03/11/2017 : 11:29:54      reply with quote


this post has been edited 2 time(s)

There is a census in the transport study looking at people using the bottom of Kirkgate crossing. It was carried out on Thursday 27th June 2017. This was impossible because the last Thursday in June was the 29th!!!
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Peter
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03/11/2017 : 11:53:21      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

The footpath from the top of Banklands Lane, which at the moment cuts across the proposed school grounds, WILL BE CLOSED


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Peter
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03/11/2017 : 12:15:16      reply with quote



Detail of the layout



Click on the link below to get the pdf document of the school grounds and the layout. If you expand the pdf there are lots of details.

news.silsden.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/NewSchool_detail_of_layout_2.pdf

click for more information

firtoffee
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03/11/2017 : 12:24:43      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

user wiped their message
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firtoffee
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03/11/2017 : 12:27:56      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)


If the flow of traffic is going to be one way people who live around Banklands Ave area will have to drive round the school and along Middleway if the want to go to the shops/Coop.
Also how will the people who live on Middleway access their property, does it mean they will have to do the circuit Bolton Rd Banklands Ave then round the new school it sounds crazy to me.
There will need to be a 10mph speed limit around the area as currently people who access the new Wayside Mews developments drive up Banklands Ave/ Daisy Hill at speeds of 30 to 40mph. I see it every day.
The drop of pick up points will not work as parents quite often need to park to go into class to speak to their child's teacher.
There will be major parking problems on parents eve and other school events.
Why not just make an extra car park for parents.
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Corky Yorky
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03/11/2017 : 12:59:30      reply with quote


Just read this in the Design and Access Statement:

The design of the school has been carefully considered with regards to how it will sit within the wider context of the newly large proposed development to the north and east of the site.

What do they know that we do not?
I am not aware of any proposed developments to the north and east of the site this time. Is anyone else?
click for more information

Corky Yorky
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03/11/2017 : 13:09:58      reply with quote


this post has been edited 2 time(s)

Agree with firtoffee totally.
I have just viewed the Proposed ground floor plans (A103) Ď0í.
It would appear that all children will be presented to their classrooms via the 2m wide main entrance. The relaxed atmosphere currently at our school will be totally lost in favour of a very regimented outlook. I would think it would entail that you would hardly ever see your teacher on a daily basis, as you can do now for a quick word. The whole atmosphere will change and Silsden will no longer have that small Town community school.

Have you seen the brutality of the design. Absolutely hideous. The only aspect i like is that it is long and only one floor high. I would have liked to have seen a more eco friendly looking building, maybe with a grass roof and a softer structure that is more fitting with the rural area it nestles in.
I fear that the design is more secondary school than one for young primary age children. It has a look of the í70ís brutalist architecture.
What are your thoughts?
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victor
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03/11/2017 : 14:10:28      reply with quote


In the walking rout audit Banklands lane Fletcher Ave it does not mention that pedestrians will have to cross Dale view to use the footpath on Banklands lane, and then cross Hawber cote lane to access the school. When in the estimated traffic survey it says between 400 to 600 vehicles an hour will use these road. They mention crossing Bolton road, Howden road Keighley road and Craven drive so why not Dale view and Hawber cote lane.
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Corky Yorky
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03/11/2017 : 14:32:03      reply with quote


Victor.
There appears to be a lot of strange anomalies throughout many of the documents.
Gazzer appears to have pointed some out also.
It looks to me that the traffic and pedestrian survey are not fit for purpose.
It all looks rushed through. No pun intended!
solid wood flooring

hat
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03/11/2017 : 14:32:08      reply with quote


Has anyone found any info on how the junctions with bolton road and banklands/ dale view will be addressed?
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victor
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03/11/2017 : 14:46:47      reply with quote


Hat when Croft builders wanted to build more houses on Wayside mews they were told only 14 could be built because of the bad exit onto Bolton road. They had to pay £6500 for road alterations to the Dale view / Bolton road junction, no work has been done and now the junction is fit for hundreds of cars to use.
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gazzer
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03/11/2017 : 22:28:29      reply with quote


quote
posted by Corky Yorky
Victor.
There appears to be a lot of strange anomalies throughout many of the documents.
Gazzer appears to have pointed some out also.
It looks to me that the traffic and pedestrian survey are not fit for purpose.
It all looks rushed through. No pun intended!

There has never been an accurate traffic survey ever,anywhere. They always give the result whoever is paying requires.
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HurricaneHector
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Posts : 175

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04/11/2017 : 15:02:10      reply with quote


qoute from my father, He who pays the piper calls the tune!
How right he was.
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victor
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07/11/2017 : 08:40:18      reply with quote


I have been told by the planners that Highways will be commenting on the proposal. This should include the junction Bolton road/ Dale view , and any parking restrictions on Dale view, Banklands lane, Hawber cote lane and Middleway.
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Happywalker
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07/11/2017 : 09:18:44      reply with quote


Victor, you posted that Croft builders had to pay £6500 for junction improvements when building on Wayside Mews.

Who told them they had to pay this money and pay it to who?

Do you know if this money was ever paid? If not, why not?

If it was paid, what happened to it?

Can you help with the above?
click for more information

Peter
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07/11/2017 : 11:22:06      reply with quote


quote
posted by Happywalker
Victor, you posted that Croft builders had to pay £6500 for junction improvements when building on Wayside Mews.

Who told them they had to pay this money and pay it to who?

Do you know if this money was ever paid? If not, why not?

If it was paid, what happened to it?

Can you help with the above?
The £6500 was the money Croft had to pay as S106 money as part of the planning approval - it was for Bradford to improve the Bolton Road / Daleview juction To date, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE BY BRADFORD.


So the answer to your question is:

Bradford and to Bradford
Yes it was paid after an agreed percentage of the houses had been completed
It went into the S106 pot for the work to be carried out BUT nothing has been done.



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Peter
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07/11/2017 : 11:31:02      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

THE PLANNING APPLICATION AND DOCUMENTS:

Re 17/05793/REG | A fit for purpose 3.FE primary school and nursery, which includes a future-proofed design to enable a 4.FE school provision. External works to include utility connections/diversions, landscaping, car parking, highways, external play and sports provision. | Land At Hawber Lane Silsden West Yorkshire

Use this link
planning.bradford.gov.uk/online-applications/

and on the page search for planning application number
17/05793/REG


If you look on the planning portal at this application you will find there are a lot of documents which appear to be the same, that is because many are the same document with a slightly different file title BUT the same file size.

I have contacted Bradford Planning with the result they are looking into the problem and the duplicates should be removed. happy :)

PS The number of documents now on the planning portal for this application have been severely culled with the duplicate files removed.

The one major document which is not on the portal yet is the report from Highways.



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Happywalker
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07/11/2017 : 11:53:45      reply with quote


Thankyou Peter.
So, Bradford tell developers they must pay money for road improvements in Silsden, developers pay the said money .... and Bradford do nothing with it.
Sounds about right. How do they get away with this?!





to be carried out
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midway
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07/11/2017 : 12:50:16      reply with quote


Read it for yourself.
https://www.local.gov.uk/pas/pas-topics/infrastructure/s106-obligations-overview
click for more information

victor
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07/11/2017 : 16:54:51      reply with quote


I am sorry but I made an error when I said Croft builders had to pay £6500 it was £5000. the 106 agreement states that " To pay the TRO Contribution in the sum of £5000 to the council prior to the occupation of the 5th Dwelling to be occupied on the Site relating to the carrying out of waiting restrictions at the junction of Banklands/ Bolton Road and Dale View /Bolton Road". Hope this helps, because I tracked the application I still have it in my tracked info.
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Peter
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07/11/2017 : 21:24:55      reply with quote


Re 17/05793/REG | A fit for purpose 3.FE primary school and nursery, which includes a future-proofed design to enable a 4.FE school provision.

3.FE and 4.FE

This refers to the number of form entries per year. So initially it will be built as a 3 form entry ie 3 x 30 x 7years = 630 pupils, this is roughly the same number that go to silsden school. However, when they build all the new houses there is provision to extend the size of the school to make it a 4.FE. ie 4 x 30 x 7years = 840 pupils.


Note on the plans there are:
100 car parking spaces for staff
15 visitor parking spaces
5 disabled parking spaces

From Silsden Primary School Transport Assessment



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midway
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07/11/2017 : 21:51:21      reply with quote


Peter can you reduce the width of your pictures please, the banners have been pushed out of view.
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HurricaneHector
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08/11/2017 : 08:58:38      reply with quote


Comments on here are all well and good but Bradford will not take any notice of them, If you have a comment to make? Make it on their planning portal.
Just open the plan and click on the make a comment.
Bradford probably wont listen even then but at least you have tried.
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victor
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08/11/2017 : 09:54:20      reply with quote


HurricaneHector, This is the information I received from the planners. If there are more than six letters of objection, the application will be reported to the Regulatory & Appeals Committee and you will be contacted re: the date of the Committee and how you can attend.
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