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Replies in this thread : 22

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Topic : Protection for working dogs

grandad
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Posts : 1797

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10/04/2018 : 14:28:08      reply with quote


Working dogs are not protected in law if they are attacked, they are classed as property,so anybody who does attack a working dog can only be charged with criminal damage, this is WRONG!

Please read the item in the link below, and lets get this disgraceful situation changed, I feel we need to make a noise about this so loud the government can't ignore it.

https://news.sky.com/story/finns-law-mps-to-decide-whether-attacking-police-dogs-should-be-criminal-offence-11263253
click for more information

Peter
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Posts : 4760

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10/04/2018 : 15:36:26      reply with quote


news.sky.com/story/finns-law-mps-to-decide-whether-attacking-police-dogs-should-be-criminal-offence-11263253
click for more information

grandad
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10/04/2018 : 19:18:46      reply with quote


Thanks Peter.
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wheelaman123
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10/04/2018 : 20:16:04      reply with quote


Grandad, is there a petition that i can sign to keep this in the public domain ?
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grandad
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11/04/2018 : 20:36:41      reply with quote


Unfortunately there isn't, because it is impossible to have two on the same subject, But, we can all campaign for this by writing to our MPs and to The Right Honourable
David Gauke MP & Secretary of State for Justice Lord Chancellor.
If they all get loads of mail telling them we want this, because the animals that put their lives on the line to protect the public deserve to be protected.
So tell all your friends, family and social media contacts to do the same.
click for more information

porta
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Posts : 57

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11/04/2018 : 23:48:07      reply with quote


Agree that working dogs need protection but:

Lambing season, sick of owners telling me ‘it’s okay, my dogs are fine with livestock’ strangely my sheep/lambs don’t know that...in fact, they should be on leads at all times around livestock REGARDLESS of the fact of the presence of stock fencing

If they have the permission of the land owner to be working their dogs on the land

Otherwise there should be no protection for said dogs (would prefer to shoot the owners but, apparently, that is already against the law)
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porta
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Posts : 57

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13/04/2018 : 10:08:43      reply with quote


For specific working dogs, assistance dogs

https://e-activist.com/page/22901/petition/2
click for more information

Peter
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13/04/2018 : 11:57:33      reply with quote


quote
posted by porta
For specific working dogs, assistance dogs

https://e-activist.com/page/22901/petition/2

e-activist.com/page/22901/petition/2

BTW if you post a website url starting "https" then remove the "s" from https:// and it will post as a link. (this forumu uses old forum software which doesn't recognise https://)
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grandad
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13/04/2018 : 20:44:52      reply with quote


quote
posted by porta
Agree that working dogs need protection but:

Lambing season, sick of owners telling me ‘it’s okay, my dogs are fine with livestock’ strangely my sheep/lambs don’t know that...in fact, they should be on leads at all times around livestock REGARDLESS of the fact of the presence of stock fencing

If they have the permission of the land owner to be working their dogs on the land

Otherwise there should be no protection for said dogs (would prefer to shoot the owners but, apparently, that is already against the law)
porta, whilst I do not disagree with your post, if you wish to start a post about livestock worrying, please do so on your own post, and not here where a very important subject (Just has your's is) is up for discussion, by you bring in a different point you are likely to divert the object of my post.
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grandad
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13/04/2018 : 21:02:18      reply with quote


Yes Guide dogs do have some protection in law from attack by other dogs.
But other working dogs like the forces dogs and the Police animals have no such protection, if you read the link at the beginning of this post you will better understand my point.
A Police dog (Finn) very nearly died when he was stabbed by the male criminal he was detaining.
The only crime the male could be charged with was that of criminal damage to police property!
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midway
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13/04/2018 : 23:30:03      reply with quote


www.petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/57585
The Government agrees that attacks of any sort on police dogs, horses or any other police animal should be dealt with severely under the criminal law. However, it is not necessary to create a new offence in order to do this.

An attack on a police dog can be treated as animal cruelty under s4 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006. The maximum penalty for this is six months imprisonment, or a fine of up to £20,000, or both. Under some circumstances, it may be possible for the offence to be treated as criminal damage, where as the petitioner implies, a much higher maximum sentence will then apply.

Therefore, an additional offence dealing with attacks on police dogs is unnecessary. The behaviour is already criminal. An additional and separate offence would not be likely to lead to more prosecutions, or higher penalties. Nor would it serve as a more effective deterrent for future or potential offenders
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grandad
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14/04/2018 : 16:53:03      reply with quote


midway
I don't doubt that you are correct, However if this is the case, then why did the criminal in Finn's case not even get charged with anything relating to the attempted murder of Finn?
Any offender who injures a police animal should be charged and sentenced just the same as if they had committed the offence on a police officer.
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porta
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15/04/2018 : 17:35:03      reply with quote


Then you will getting into the realms of sentient beings...
If you treat a dog as a person, then why not a bird, reptile, fish?
The CPS considers the likelihood of a case succeeding and , therefore, what law to apply to ensure that success.
We don’t always agree with it, and, as has been proved in the past, they get it wrong, but to treat Finn as an officer of the law is pushing it
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HurricaneHector
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Posts : 185

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15/04/2018 : 20:29:54      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by porta
Then you will getting into the realms of sentient beings...
If you treat a dog as a person, then why not a bird, reptile, fish?
The CPS considers the likelihood of a case succeeding and , therefore, what law to apply to ensure that success.
We don’t always agree with it, and, as has been proved in the past, they get it wrong, but to treat Finn as an officer of the law is pushing it
Sentient Being Definition: A creature that can suffer and feel pain; mostly animals and humans. Related Terms: Animal. Generally, in law, a sentient being is one with the faculty of sensation and the power to to perceive, reason and think.
There are a lot of animals that have far more intelligence than many humans.
The CPS (Criminal Protection Service, or even Couldn't Prosecute Satan) are a waste of tax payers money.
click for more information

porta
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Posts : 57

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16/04/2018 : 09:25:10      reply with quote


This is spot on:

“Generally, in law, a sentient being is one with the faculty of sensation and the power to to perceive, reason and think.”

And....couldn’t agree more

“There are a lot of animals that have far more intelligence than many humans.”
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cars
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Posts : 83

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16/04/2018 : 20:37:05      reply with quote


i maybe missing the point of this thread, but here goes............................ HUMANS train DOGS, to help HUMANS do things that HUMANS can't do.....so when a DOG gets injured 'sadly' (yes I do have a DOG & yes he makes me happy when HUMANS don't, yes I love him more than I can say, and yes the insurance payments speak for themselves ! ) it becomes a HUMAN and everyone should be aware of his rights (given to him as a PUPPY I assume, by ???? ) Think your barking up the wrong tree here grandad, stick to advising people about dog shit. (down Riley, down....'your a DOG'..here's your bone ! )
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grandad
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17/04/2018 : 11:51:57      reply with quote


this post has been edited 1 time(s)

cars, if you love dogs, then please ho please read the link above, and the photo of Finn's wound shown is only the minor one, he was stabbed in the chest, which punctured his lung, and caused massive blood loss the vet had to open up Finn's whole side to effect a repair, there were months of rehabilitation needed for a full recovery.
The full storey is told in the book "Fabulous Finn".
After reading this book I am disgusted that the criminal who did this wasn't even charged with anything relating to Finn's injuries.
An e-partition received 11,393 signatures, calling for a new law making it a criminal offence to injure any working dog / animal, there was a debate in parliament, and our MPs decided such a law wasn't required, for the reasons given by midway above.
The result of this case proves that the present law is NOT sufficient to protect working animals.
That is why I started this post.
SO WHY DO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO GET PERSONAL WHEN POSTING ON ANYTHING I HAVE TO SAY?
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grandad
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19/04/2018 : 14:54:31      reply with quote


I've just had this reply from our M.P.

Thank you very much for writing to me about the Service Animal (Offences Bill ). My apologises for the delay in getting back to you.

I am fully in support of Finns Law. We are still waiting a date for the second reading debate for this bill. I am still hopeful though not least because PC Dave Wardell who has been campaigning on the issue since he was attacked with his police dog recently said


“We’ve heard lots of positive noises from the government. We believe there is still lots of support in Parliament’



Yours sincerely,



John Grogan,
Member of Parliament for Keighley
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grandad
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25/04/2018 : 16:30:22      reply with quote


Please see link below, West Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner supports Finn's Law.

www.westyorkshire-pcc.gov.uk/news-events/news/current/west-yorkshire's-police-and-crime-commissioner-on-finn's-law-(13-mar-2018).aspx
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cars
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25/04/2018 : 18:53:10      reply with quote


this link does not work......from my 'personal' point of view
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Peter
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26/04/2018 : 09:34:34      reply with quote


https://www.westyorkshire-pcc.gov.uk/news-events/news/current/west-yorkshire%E2%80%99s-police-and-crime-commissioner-on-finn%E2%80%99s-law-(13-mar-2018).aspx
solid wood flooring

grandad
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Posts : 1797

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26/04/2018 : 13:18:42      reply with quote


Peter thanks for sorting it out for me.
cars thanks for taking the time to look at this important subject.
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cars
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Posts : 83

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26/04/2018 : 20:23:00      reply with quote


yes, i do agree with your sentiments, and yes, its wrong for ANY dog, working for the benefit of Humans, if injured to be treated as 'property' .
the issue is what crime has been committed to the animal....lets see what the House of Lords say....good on you Grandad (did i really say that....WOW)
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